NintendoLand

I can show you an interesting video that inspired me to make this thread. Take a look.

[youtube]yjO4duhMRZk[/youtube]

I have an anti-theism view in the sense that I really believe in freedom from religion. I don't believe that the public as a whole should be subject to the rules of any religion or religions. Unfortunately it seems that as societies become more secular, certain groups of religious people become very vocal, claiming they're being persecuted; "keep the 'Christ' in 'Christmas'!" is a phrase that they love to roll out each year. They seem worried that the pagan traditions they assumed as their own are being adopted by atheists, but I digress.

Freedom of religion carries with it freedom from religion and thank goodness for that. For example, a producer of a BBC series* claimed that if he could change one thing about Christmas, he would make it illegal for people to work on that day, "regardless of their religion". I'm glad that such people don't have their way and never could.

*One about the birth of Jesus, of course.

Danny, did your atheist senses tingle? I haven't seen/talked to you in weeks. xD

They certainly did! Atheism in general is often equated with militant atheism; it's stereotyped like a religion rather than being recognised as the lack of one. Therefore as a strong atheist, it's a subject in which I'm very interested.


I've just finished the longest and most intensive project I've met so far, hence my lack of presence.

Once again, I must briefly lift my self-imposed ban from the Serious Discussion section. I severely hope that I need only make one post, but time will tell.

Let me first confess something. Despite all my hatred of racism and bigotry and all such things, I have discovered that I seem to be prejudiced against atheists. This is on the one hand very odd since Douglas Adams was my favorite author, and I do not feel the same prejudice against him, but where it comes from is this very topic: anti-theism or aggressive atheism or whatever we're calling it. Mr. Adams described himself as a "radical atheist," but he defined it as someone who has put a lot of thought into the position and holds it seriously (not just an agnostic); he did not define it as someone who wishes for everyone to be an atheist and tries to make this happen at every possibility. In what I consider to be my heart of hearts, what I cannot stand is anyone who tries to change anyone else in any way; I think my unfortunate prejudice stems from the fact that I have actually met atheists who try to convince everyone they meet to become atheist, whereas I have never really met any religious missionaries. (Please realize that I am not implying that things that I have not encountered do not exist. Rather, I am pointing out, in reference to my prejudice, that what people tell you cannot really change your mind if your life experiences have shown you otherwise. But that is a different topic altogether.)

I don't want to be prejudiced, because I hate prejudice, but one way or another I would still be against aggressive atheism if it is defined as trying to change other people's opinions. I understand that some people are complete idiots and their opinions really should be changed, but nevertheless I cannot stand the idea of trying to change people when they do not wish to change. For example, this post expresses my own opinion, but it is in no way meant to change anyone else's opinion on the matter, and if any of it came across that way, it was unintentional. Expressing your opinion is different than trying to force it on someone.

Not much of a self-imposed ban if you can keep lifting it, as implied by saying "once again".


That's misleading. He didn't explicitly say that but it's the logical conclusion. If someone puts a lot of thought into it and holds the position "seriously", then of course they will want everyone to be atheist. Religions do nothing but introduce strife; the modern fairy tales aren't even as interesting as the old Norse or Greek ones, for example. It's ridiculous to believe any sensible atheist wouldn't want rid of religion.


Then you must not be able to stand the majority of the population. Everyone wants to get people into their way of thinking or to share their views. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have politics or lobby groups, for example.
If this is why you're prejudiced against atheists, then it's laughable. Atheists want a secular society which is, believe or not, better for everyone as a whole; we shouldn't prioritise one religion over another or let it govern our laws. Radical Christians want their nonsensical beliefs both shielded from law and enshrined in it.

Grate Oracle Lewot, it's not the fact that I have some sort of obsession with pushing atheism on people, it's the fact that I've recognized religion is hurting our society and societies around the world. I'd rather try to do something about it than sit and watch religion eat it's way into law.

Groan.


It's the second time (third counting this post). Give me a **** break.


Indeed I cannot.


I guess I didn't make it clear enough, but I am not choosing to be prejudiced against atheists. I am admitting that it appears to exist within me... How do I explain this? I kind of thought, though now I'm not sure anymore, that there was some precedent for prejudices being so deeply ingrained that even if the person wants to change and seeks help, he may not be able to alter his internal feelings, even if he can alter his external behavior. I'm not saying they're born prejudiced, but if it's instilled in you from a young age... I don't know. Look, I hate debating, so can we just agree that I'm wrong about everything and let me leave?



Fine, whatever. Santa Claus isn't real, I get it.



I never said I was a radical Christian. Honestly I'm more like agnostic, and about the only thing keeping me from being an atheist is how arrogant all of the atheists I've met come off. Listen to the guy in the video (which I did not watch before making the last post). "...which is of course absolutely sacred as we all know--much, much more sacred than any god ... could or will ever be..." etc. It's not what he says but how he says it. His tone and diction suggest that he is God, and in my experience, that's more than typical from atheists. It's probably even more common from religious people--that's what all the atheists seem to be saying, anyway--but I've never seen it myself. That's not to say it's not there. I'm not trying to say it's not there, I'm trying to say that the forceful attitude of all the atheists I've met is most likely the origin of my prejudice.

I'm not advocating religions making laws or whatever the crap all of that stuff is. I am absolutely incapable of comprehending politics or economics or anything of the kind. I have no opinion on them because I cannot digest them. What I say comes from my experience with what I can digest, and in my experience, arrogance is a prerequisite for atheism. But again, that's my experience, which has basically nothing to do with facts.



Like I said. Not advocating religion in law. I mean, part of me likes the idea of prohibiting racial slurs, but I guess you're not going to get a law like that to pass without involving religion as well as race, so free speech is better.

Yeah, never said you were advocating it,

As much as I dislike racial slurs, they should be in no way outlawed. That's free speech, and hey, sometimes the bad guys win. But free speech gives us the right to say "Hey, screw you!" to the bad guys. Free speech gives the minority a chance.

We don't really choose our prejudices or beliefs directly. However, we can inspect our beliefs. A person that believes in Krishna can't force themselves to erase that belief through pure will; what they may do is analyse why they have those beliefs and what supports them.


Imagine if a large portion of society believed Santa Claus was real and a subsection of them tried to shoehorn the belief into politics or used it as the basis for discrimination. You'd want those people to not believe in Santa Claus.


I never said you were; I was comparing one interpretation of radical atheism to another of radical Christianity.


Honestly, re-read what you've written. You don't choose to be an atheist.
If you lack belief in a higher power, you're an atheist. It doesn't matter how you view other atheists; you still are one. However, you may of course choose not to identify as an "atheist".


The problem is, you don't know about the quiet atheists simply because they're exactly that: quiet. You associate arrogance with atheism because it's the vocal atheists who identify themselves.
The problem is, atheists do have to be vocal. They have to be the ones to step in and say no, you can't display religious nonsense in a museum as fact and that no, the law does not protect discrimination based on religion.